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Can Logitech Dual Action Gamepads be used?

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  • Can Logitech Dual Action Gamepads be used?

    We have mostly DAs with a few F310s. Will there be a driver for the DA? If there will be a driver for the DA is there a good reason to not use them?

    Thanks,
    John Courter
    Mentor
    3805

  • #2
    Hi John,

    I don't believe that there is Android support for the older Logitech Dual Action gamepads. When we use the Logitech F310 gamepads with the Android devices, we have to switch them to "X" mode (which I believe is for Xbox controller emulation mode). The older Dual Action gamepads do not seem to work with Android. I think teams will have to upgrade to the newer F310 gamepads.

    Tom

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    • #3
      Hi Tom

      That's one of those really useful tid-bits that I never expect.
      I've been learning how to access a Game controller with android (unrelated to FTC but related to getting the kids eager to learn Android Studios) and I couldn't figure out why my app wasn't seeing the controller.
      Imagine my relief when I saw your email and flicked the switch and it worked. Probably saved me many frustrating days.

      Something I did notice was that the names assigned to the various Controller axes change from Android device to Android device.

      On the ZTE Speed, (4.4.4) the right joystick shows up as Axes "RX" and "RY" (right X and Y).
      However, the identical app deployed to my LG 400 Table (5.0.0) show the same physical controller inputs as axes "Z" and "RZ"

      Is this sort of thing what makes supporting different android devices difficult?

      Comment


      • #4
        Related question: the screenshot of the "2015 - 16 TIMS Registration" shows the USB hub (image below). The image is fuzzy, but looks like one from Amazon (image & link below). Is this same or equivalent; something I could use for testing?

        Hub sold on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1


        -------------------------------------------------------

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi Craig...

          I also found this one that looks very similar.
          http://www.thehumansolution.com/upli...0-usb-hub.html

          I also found another one that I like as an alternative:
          http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OZDUTMM

          I like this one not because of it's lower price, but because the micro connector is wired in, and it seems like it would be lighter.
          I've tried it with the ZTE Phone and it seems to work fine.

          Phil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Philbot View Post
            ...I also found another one that I like as an alternative:
            http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OZDUTMM

            I like this one not because of it's lower price, but because the micro connector is wired in, and it seems like it would be lighter.
            I've tried it with the ZTE Phone and it seems to work fine.

            Phil.
            I like that 2x too. Thanks! Have you gotten the game controllers talking to the ZTE? I want to do this when I get time.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Philbot View Post
              Hi Tom

              That's one of those really useful tid-bits that I never expect.
              I've been learning how to access a Game controller with android (unrelated to FTC but related to getting the kids eager to learn Android Studios) and I couldn't figure out why my app wasn't seeing the controller.
              Imagine my relief when I saw your email and flicked the switch and it worked. Probably saved me many frustrating days.

              Something I did notice was that the names assigned to the various Controller axes change from Android device to Android device.

              On the ZTE Speed, (4.4.4) the right joystick shows up as Axes "RX" and "RY" (right X and Y).
              However, the identical app deployed to my LG 400 Table (5.0.0) show the same physical controller inputs as axes "Z" and "RZ"

              Is this sort of thing what makes supporting different android devices difficult?
              Hi Phil,

              Yes, I believe that there isn't any support on Android for the older discontinued Dual Action gamepads - that's probably why it wasn't visible.

              Also, to respond to your question regarding supporting different android devices, yes, while most of the android devices seem consistent in their support for things like gamepads, sometimes there could be differences and this is why it is important to test a device with the system hardware before using it.

              the LG v400 G Pads are a good example. These are great Android devices and we considered using them as a platform for the new controller. However, our testing revealed some quirks in the support for the gamepads (we tried Logitech F310 and the Xbox PC Microsoft game pad). We did not notice the "Z" and "RZ" issue for our v400 G Pads, but we noticed another peculiar quirk. If you push two buttons on the gamepad at the same time, the buttons would "stick" virtually for the LG G Pad v400. For example, if you pushed the A & B buttons simultaneously, both buttons would remained in the "pushed" state, even if you physically released both buttons. to clear this issue you had to push the A or B button.

              In our testing, for the most part, most of the Android devices seem to work well and as advertised, but it's important to test the devices for compatibility in case there are weird little quirks like the ones you saw or we saw in our testing.

              Tom
              Last edited by Tom Eng; 05-18-2015, 07:35 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                I believe this is the model of non-powered USB hub in the photo...

                http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Philbot View Post
                  On the ZTE Speed, (4.4.4) the right joystick shows up as Axes "RX" and "RY" (right X and Y).
                  However, the identical app deployed to my LG 400 Table (5.0.0) show the same physical controller inputs as axes "Z" and "RZ"
                  Most Android devices don't have the proper key mappings for the F310. It's too old. You can avoid this problem altogether by using a newer gamepad such as the XBox 360 USB gamepad (make sure it's the PC compatible version).

                  In the FTC software, we have code that automatically translates the improperly mapped F310 keys to the correct values.

                  In devices <5.0, here's the mapping:
                  left stick = AXIS_X, AXIS_Y
                  right stick = AXIS_RX, AXIS_RY
                  left trigger = AXIS_Z
                  right trigger = AXIS_RZ

                  The triggers require extra math, since the scaling is off. The equation is (value + 1.0) / 2.0.

                  In Android 5.0, Google changed the mapping on "unknown" devices. So this is the mapping we use:
                  left stick = AXIS_X / AXIS_Y
                  right stick = AXIS_Z, AXIS_RZ
                  left trigger = AXIS_BREAK
                  right trigger = AXIS_GAS

                  No extra math is required for Android 5.0+

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So, a couple of questions then. We have only Dual Action game pads, and one F310 (and most of our Dual Action's are broke anyway). So, since we need to buy new game pads, what should we buy? Can we use the F310's, or would it be easier to buy some other joystick, and what should that joystick be? Also, will the F310 be no longer compatible in the future and we should get something else looking ahead?

                    Thanks,
                    Kyle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jonathan Berling View Post
                      Most Android devices don't have the proper key mappings for the F310. It's too old. You can avoid this problem altogether by using a newer gamepad such as the XBox 360 USB gamepad (make sure it's the PC compatible version).
                      What controllers will be in the FTC Controller kit that I just ordered???? Please tell me that I'm not buying obselete parts!
                      Jim Bates
                      Atlantic County NJ 4-H Robotics
                      FLL Teams 71 & 13365
                      FTC Team 9765

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kyled View Post
                        will the F310 be no longer compatible in the future and we should get something else looking ahead?
                        The F310's are supported by the FTC software. I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be supported in the future.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JimInNJ View Post
                          What controllers will be in the FTC Controller kit that I just ordered???? Please tell me that I'm not buying obselete parts!
                          Maybe I phrased that a little too harshly. They're not obsolete. Generally, Android devices only have key mappings for the most popular gamepads, and each manufacture has a different idea of which gamepads are the most popular. If you're writing your own app, and your Android device doesn't have a key mapping for your gamepad, you'll have to translate they key presses yourself.

                          If you are using the FTC software and an F310, the FTC software will translate the key presses for you. If you're using a different gamepad, you have to go into the options and let the FTC software know and it won't perform the translation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jonathan Berling View Post
                            Maybe I phrased that a little too harshly. They're not obsolete. Generally, Android devices only have key mappings for the most popular gamepads, and each manufacture has a different idea of which gamepads are the most popular. If you're writing your own app, and your Android device doesn't have a key mapping for your gamepad, you'll have to translate they key presses yourself.

                            If you are using the FTC software and an F310, the FTC software will translate the key presses for you. If you're using a different gamepad, you have to go into the options and let the FTC software know and it won't perform the translation.
                            Will the driver station software recognize and translate keycodes from an F310 on a non-ZTE-Speed device? On a ZTE Speed purchased through channels other than the store linked from FTC TIMS?
                            FTC6460 mentor (software+computer vision+electronics), FPGA enthusiast. In favor of allowing custom electronics on FTC bots.
                            Co-founder of ##ftc live chat for FTC programming--currently you may need to join and wait some time for help--volunteer basis only.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hexafraction View Post
                              Will the driver station software recognize and translate keycodes from an F310 on a non-ZTE-Speed device? On a ZTE Speed purchased through channels other than the store linked from FTC TIMS?
                              Yes, and yes.

                              The translation works on every Android device we have tried.

                              Comment

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