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  • #31
    Originally posted by FTC4311
    1. If a red robot pushes a red crate so it breaks the plane of the blue protected zone, there is no penalty on blue, however, what happens if a blue robot pushes the crate further into the blue protected zone after red broke the plane (and the crate was not removed from the zone)? Is there any penalty?

    2. If a red robot pushes a red crate so it breaks the plane of the blue ramp so that part of the crate is on the mat and part on the ramp, what happens if a blue robot pushes the crate further up the blue ramp after red initially broke the plane (and the crate was not removed from the ramp) without the crate losing contact with the mat? Is there any penalty?

    3. In scenario 2, what happens if the blue robot pushes the crate far enough up the ramp that it breaks contact with the field mat, violating
    <SG5>.

    4. If the red robot positioned red robots fully on the ramp (prior to the end game), they could block all access to the ramp because <SG5> would prevent the blue robot from touching them, since they are not touching the field mat, so blue can't push them out of the way. Is this correct or does it fall under rule <G10> - one alliance cannot cause another to violate a rule?


    A1: no penalty - crate already in protected zone

    A2: no penalty - crate already in contact w/ home zone

    A3: no penalty - crate maintains contact w/ ramp (i.e. not lifted)

    A4: assume that you mean "red robot positioned red CRATES fully on ramp ..." - no penalty (combination of questions 2 & 3)

    Comment


    • #32
      Post #31 Clarification

      Originally posted by FTC2843
      This is a request for clarification on post #31 in penalties. The fourth question is implying that if a red robot pushes crates on the blue ramp, they could effectively block the blue ramp and prevent the blue robot from access to the ramp and platform. I just want to verify that a red crate has NO protection on the blue ramp EXCEPT the provision of only being able to touch one side by a blue robot. The blue robot would be free to push the red crate off of the ramp (only contacting one side) without penalty even if there is a ball in the crate and the crate is tipped because a red crate is only protected from descoring on the red home zone and red protected zone.

      That is correct. You can spill the red crate where it sits. It is not in the red home zone or protected area and therefore has no protection

      Comment


      • #33
        Rule &lt;SG5&gt;, Carrying an Opposing Alliance Crate

        Originally posted by FTC5356
        What happens if an opponent robot contacts one of our alliance crates on two sides, or holds it off the mat, continuously, for the whole match? Is that just one 5 point penalty?
        The action is a single violation of rule <SG5> that incurs one 5-point penalty, provided that no other rule is violated.

        Comment


        • #34
          Stacking an Opposing Alliance crate on their own Alliance's Crate

          Originally posted by FTC5356
          What happens if an opponent places one of our crates on top of a stack of their crates? (With or without a ball in our crate.) Is that only a 5 point penalty (assuming they only had to touch our crate illegally one time in order to stack it)?
          The action described is a single violation of rule <SG5> that incurs one, 5-point penalty.

          Comment


          • #35
            De-scoring Balls Contained in Crates

            Originally posted by FTC5356
            Suppose our robot is carrying one of our alliance crates with a ball inside, with the crate in the air above our protected area or above our home zone, and suppose an opposing alliance robot contacts our robot or our carried crate (which is already a minus-40 point violation of <SG7>).

            Q1: If the contact directly causes our carried crate to fall, and the fall of the crate causes the ball to bounce out, is this action considered a violation of the prohibition in <SG2> of deliberately de-scoring balls from crates in the protected area (which is minus-40 and a disqualification), instead of (or in addition to) <SG7>, or is only <SG7> violated?

            Q2: If the contact does not cause our carried crate to fall, but directly causes the ball to bounce or roll out of our carried crate, is this action considered a violation of the prohibition in <SG2> of deliberately de-scoring balls from crates in the protected area (which is minus-40 and a disqualification) instead of (or in addition to) <SG7>, or is only <SG7> violated?
            A1: The action describes is a violation of both <SG2> and <SG7>.
            A2: The action describes is a violation of both <SG2> and <SG7>.

            Comment


            • #36
              Rule &lt;SG9&gt;

              Originally posted by FTC3483
              Does the rule apply to Autonomous as well as Driver Controlled?

              <SG9> Pushing an opposing Alliance's Ball Crate and/or Bowling Ball onto your Home Zone and/or Protected
              Area is not allowed at any time and will result in a Major Penalty (40 points).***

              Thanks.
              Yes, "at any time" includes both Autonomous and Driver Controlled portions of the match.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by FTC4494
                Will we be penalized if our robot continues to move with no power applied to the motors after Teleop ends? If not, will the round be scored based on our status at the end of Teleop or that when the robot stops moving?


                A: Motion/activity started prior to the end of the match or caused by a simple, random relaxation of the robot will not be penalized. Purposeful motion triggered after the end of the match is a safety violation and may result in disqualification of the robot (<S1>).

                Comment


                • #38
                  Safety of a Scissor Lift

                  Originally posted by FTC4102
                  Our robot has a scissor lift that shoots up very fast when it is released. Because of the way it is designed, it has to do this in order to work properly. When it shoots up it goes up straight, so it would not go outside of the playing field unless the robot itself was on an angle. We will be placing warnings on the robot about this, protective padding on the top of the lift, and also warning refs during a match when we are about to release the lift. There are no rules against a fast moving lift since it won't damage any field elements and it won't endanger spectators or drivers since it doesn't go outside the playing field. However, refs at our latest scrimmage were still concerned about safety with the lift. Even if it doesn't hurt someone, is there any reason we could be disqualified from a match or a tournament simply because of a fast moving lift? (assuming it doesn't hit anybody)
                  The Game Design Committee is not able to rule on the safety of the described scenario. Fast robot motion in itself doesn't automatically violate a rule. On-site Referees are best suited to observe robot behavior and determine if rules are violated. Depending on the situation, safety rules <S1> and <S2>, and rule <G8> could come into play.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by FTC3785
                    Given the potential for some very high scores by a high lifting robot- it seems that one's robot might be tempted to knock a crate/ball out of a high scoring robot- as a a defenseive move-especially if the robot is not in a "safe" zone. The potential penality could be 80 points if both <SG2> and <SG7> are invoked but if the high lifting robot could score 2-300 points then taking a -80 point hit might be a viable strategy?

                    a) In one scenario- the high lifting robot is carrying a crate with or with out a ball and is challenged by the opposing alliance- thsi robot eventually knocks the ball out or knocks the crate out of or off the robot. Is this just a -40 point penality, -80 or a potential disqualification?

                    b) Second scenario- the high lifting robot is in the safe zone but the opposing alliances robot attempts to knock the crate off or out of the high lifting robot- what is the call? Is this just a -40 point penality or a potential disqualification?

                    thanks


                    A: Both of these scenarios would fall under the rulings associated with <G16>. They both fall into the general description of repeated and/or flagrant violation of game rules.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FTC3785
                      In a follow up to #39. If the robot is carrying a crate in the open field- no ball inside- and is not actively stacking but carrying a crate-looking to add a ball to the crate. What if the opposing alliance team repeated knocks into the arm holding the empty crate. After 3 or 4 knocks, the crate is dislodged from the robots grips and falls. Is this fair play? or does <g16> come into play. With the possibility of very high lifts- dislodging a empty crate can be a useful strategy to stop a major point score. Thanks


                      A: In general, there is no penalty associated with making contact with a crate carried by an opposing alliance robot outside of the protected areas. However, the referees on the field will have to assess whether the specific sequence of contacts and/or their results violates any of the other rules, including any possible violation of <G16>.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Lifting an Opposing Alliance's Crate

                        Originally posted by FTC4997
                        Q1: If we stack 2 of our own crates on top of 1 of our opposing alliance's crates, put balls in each and lift them, would we score points for our opponent as well as our own team

                        Q2: Also, would we only be penalized one 40-point penalty for putting our crate on our opponent's crate (SG8) and then an SG5 for touching it for a total of 45-penalty points?

                        Q3: Could we also do this in several matches or would we get disqualified for continuing to get penalties? Or in another words could we use this as a strategy to obtain ranking points in the qualifying rounds at the World Championship?
                        A1: Yes. Ball's are scored based on their location at the end of the match, not how they got there. For example, Balls in blue crates count for the Blue Alliance and Balls in red crates count for the Red Alliance. The location of the crate isn't relevant when determining the scored balls.

                        The crate stacking bonus is awarded based on each crate's height and color. Blue crates score for the Blue Alliance and red crates score for the Red Alliance, regardless of which alliance robot is contacting or lifting the crates.

                        A2: Yes. This question has been addressed in the Driver-Controlled Scoring thread in post #22 on 02-22-2012 and in the Penalties thread in post #33 on 01-26-2012.

                        A3: The actions described in Q1 would result in a violation of G16 if performed in multiple matches. The consequence would be team disqualification.
                        Last edited by Professor Proton; 04-11-2012, 11:14 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Pinning a Crate

                          Originally posted by FTC4311
                          In a match last weekend, a situation came up where a crate was pinned, causing the robot to tip over. With the proliferation of robots using "fishhooks" to capture a crate and then lift it, the hooked crate may be pulled on the ground or carried, dangling in the air by a string.

                          Scenario 1:
                          Q1: If a red robot drives and pins the dragged blue crate against the wall, touching only one side of the blue crate, while not touching the blue robot, is it considered pinning or entanglement?

                          Q2: If the blue robot tries to lift, but ends up tipping over because the basket is pinned against the wall, is it tipping because the blue robot didn't release the basket from the wall?

                          Scenario 2:

                          Q3: If a red robot is carrying a red crate that is dangling from a string, but is off the mat, and a blue robot pins that hanging basket against the wall, while not pinning the red robot, is that considered pinning? Even though the rest of the robot can move, the basket can't. However, my understanding is that the hanging basket is considered part of the robot, if it is carried.
                          A1: The action described is pinning.

                          A2: The action described is not tipping.

                          A3: The action described is pinning.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Touching an Opposing Alliance Crate While Carried

                            Originally posted by FTC4311
                            If a red basket is carried by a red robot, and by rule is considered part of the red robot, is there a 5-point penalty for a blue robot touching the red crate on more than one side while it is carried (but not in a protected zone) as the blue robot is trying to knock the crate off the other robot?
                            Yes, this action is a violation of rule <SG5>.

                            Comment

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