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Miscellaneous Game Questions - Answer Thread

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  • #31
    <G8> Stopping Game Play Late - Triggering a Beacon After the Period Ends

    Originally posted by FTC7244
    Question: If a beacon is triggered and changed due to a late stop, is it scored based on the color it was when the match ended or the color it is after the late push?

    Answer: Rule <G8> addresses stopping game play late. The rule explicitly states that the late action does not count towards the offending Alliance's Score. A minor penalty should be assessed and the Beacon counted as not Scored.


    • #32
      &lt;G18&gt; Removing Game Elements from the Playing Field - Cap Ball

      Originally posted by FTC7244
      Question: If a blue robot is moving their blue cap ball out of the way to get to a blue particle and in the process accidentally knocks the cap ball out of the field would this be a penalty?

      Answer: No Penalty should be assessed and field personnel at the earliest safe and convenient opportunity will return the Cap Ball to the Playing Field at the approximate location where it left the Playing Field.


      • #33
        Note from the GDC: Aggressive Beacon Contact and &lt;G15&gt; Field Damage

        A Note from the Game Design Committee:

        We are hearing reports of teams driving their robots aggressively and repeatedly making very hard contact on the Beacons and the walls adjacent to the Beacons.

        Aggressive contact that causes significant flexing of the walls or moves/dislodges a Beacon will be considered field damage and penalized according to <G15>. Teams should expect to receive warnings and may receive Major Penalties and a Yellow Card for excessive or chronic aggressive Beacon contacts.


        • #34
          Rotating the Center Vortex Using a Cap Ball

          Originally posted by FTC9915
          At a recent league event, the center vortex was rotated faster than 12 RPM by a robot acting against a Cap Ball resting on the center vortex base. By squeezing the Cap Ball against the center vortex vertical pole and turning, the robot easily rotated the center vortex. The action is recorded in the video:

          Question 1:
          Is this action legal?
          Question 2: Does it make a difference if the action is inadvertent?
          Answer 1: The Robot action described in the scenario and demonstrated in the video is not allowed if the Center Vortex rotates at a rate that is greater than one revolution in less than five seconds. This is only one example of of a Robot rotating the Center Vortex. Other similar methods that cause a high rotation rate will also be deemed illegal.

          Answer 2: Inadvertent rotation of the Center Vortex above the allowed rotation rate should not be Penalized. Referees will determine if the Robot's actions are an intentional strategy or an Inadvertent action.


          • #35
            &lt;GS14&gt; Blocking Access to an Opposing Alliance's Corner Vortex- Parking On the Vortex

            Originally posted by FTC5532
            Question: Is it legal/fair game play for an opposing alliance's robot to park on our corner vortex during the driver-controlled period? The opposing robot prevented the scoring of particles in the corner vortex.

            Answer: The action described in the scenario violates rule <GS14>. Rule <GS14> states that during the Driver-Controlled Period, a Robot may not obstruct all access, prevent a Robot from escaping, or interfere with the opposing Alliance's Corner Vortex when an opposing Alliance Robot is actively attempting to access or escape from it.

            A Robot may Park On the opposing Alliance's Corner Vortex without Penalty if an opposing Alliance Robot is not attempting to access or exit the Corner Vortex.


            • #36
              &lt;G23&gt; - Disabled Robot Eligibility - Penalties while Disabled

              Originally posted by FTC11625
              At our last competition, a robot lost connection during the driver controlled period in front of a beacon. It was clear they could not connect or move.

              Question 1: Which rule prevails? GS10 - Controlling or Blocking an Opposing Alliance’s Scoring Elements, or G23 - Disabled Robot Eligibility?

              Question 2: Would this team have been required to ask a ref to declare their robot disabled to use rule G23 or how is “Disabled Robot” defined?

              Answer 1: Rule <G23> prevails. A Disabled Robot (whether referee induced or Robot failure) will not earn Penalties after becoming Disabled. The Robot described in the scenario should not receive Penalties after the failure occurs.

              Answer 2: The Drive Team should immediately notify a referee and the Field Technical Advisor when they are not able to control their Robot. After the Match ends, the Head Referee make the final decision about Penalties after confirming the Robot failure with the Field Technical Advisor.


              • #37
                &lt;G14&gt; Robots Grasping Game Elements &amp; &lt;S2&gt; Robot Extension Outside the Playing Field

                Originally posted by FTC9794
                Question: Is it legal to touch the beacon from the top to prevent it from moving? The robot has an arm that comes over the top of the beacon to prevent it from moving away from the robot as it presses the button.

                Answer: The action described is not allowed because it violates rule <G14>. The Robot will also violate rule <S2> if it extends beyond the outside face of the Playing Field Wall and contacts anything outside the Playing Field Perimeter.


                • #38
                  Rotating the Center Vortex Using a Cap Ball

                  Originally posted by FTC8923
                  The rule about grasping states that robots may not grasp the center vortex pole. The ball is considered to be part of the robot per the definition of Controlling, and since the cap balls are flexible, they technically make more than one point of contact with the pole. In post #34 of the Miscellaneous thread, it was ruled illegal to *rapidly* rotate the center vortex with a cap ball (or other methods). Question: Is it legal to rotate the center vortex by pushing a cap ball against the vertical pole, provided the rotation rate of the center vortex does not exceed the limitation?

                  Answer: Yes, if the Cap Ball is not Possessed by the Robot.


                  • #39
                    &lt;S1&gt; Unsafe Robot and Playing Field Damage - Scuff Marks on a Particle

                    Originally posted by FTC5559
                    Question: Is it a penalty if your robot leaves scuff marks onto the particles due to our flywheel shooter?

                    Answer: Robots should not be Penalized for making marks on Particles that can be removed by cleaning.


                    • #40
                      Section 1.5.2 Autonomous Period - Inadvertent Scoring of a Beacon

                      Originally posted by FTC7026
                      Here is the statement from the Game Manual Part 2: The Alliance matching the color that is triggered at the end of the Autonomous Period will receive thirty (30) points per Beacon, regardless of which Alliance Robot triggered it ...

                      During the autonomous period in a match this weekend, after we had claimed a beacon, an accidental contact with our cap ball caused one of our claimed beacons to be re-claimed for the opposing alliance.

                      Question: Can the game design committee confirm if accidental claiming/reclaiming of a beacon by a cap ball can be ruled as ineligible for scoring during Autonomous?

                      Answer: A Beacon triggered by an Inadvertent action is legally Scored.


                      • #41
                        Is a mini-bot attached with an elevated scissor extension to a main-bot legal?

                        Originally posted by FTC12357
                        Our team has a minibot that comes off of the main robot, the wires are run from the mainbot to the minbot on a rigid scissor extension that is raised 28 inches above the ground to eliminate the risk of entanglement. It is very similar to this robot design for the 2012-2013 Ring It Up! game except we raise our scissor extension up higher and we do not have slack wires ever (The wires are secured directly to the metal scissor extension bars). Our plan is to bring the minibot back to the mainbot and stop using it as soon as anyone raises to the height of our scissor extension, to prevent tipping both their robot and our robot from tipping over.

                        Question 1: Right now, we are using the minibot just to help pickup particles and bring them to the mainbot to be launched, is this legal?

                        Question 2: We are also considering adding a beacon button pusher to it so it can help us claim the beacons during end game and autonomous, is this legal?

                        Answer 1: The Game Design Committee enjoys seeing how Teams solve the annual game challenge and this Robot is a very creative approach to playing VELOCITY VORTEX.

                        The Game Design Committee is not able to give absolute approval to the Robot without an in-person inspection. A Robot Inspector at an event will confirm that the Robot complies with all the construction rules. All that the Game Design Committee can say is that in general, the mini-bot/main-Robot concept described in the post does not appear to violate any construction rules. Keep in mind that the entire Robot must comply with the Robot starting volume rule, <G3>.

                        While the construction of the Robot appears to be legal, compliance with game rules will be decided by referees during Match play. Complying with the following game rules could be more challenging for this Robot than it is for a more conventional Robot design.

                        <S1> Unsafe Robot
                        <G15> Destruction, Damage, Tipping, etc.
                        <G13> Robots Deliberately Detaching Parts
                        <G16> Pinning, Trapping, or Blocking Robots
                        <G20> Timely removal of Robots from the Playing Field at the end of a Match
                        <GS9> Particle interference
                        <GS10> Blocking Access to an opposing Alliance's Scoring Elements
                        <GS11> Cap Ball interference

                        Blocking Robots, Scoring Elements, and launched Particles are of particular concern. A Robot this big could be a real barrier to allowing free access to Particles, Cap Balls, and Vortex goals.

                        Rule <G13> is also a major issue. Robot parts that are released but remain connected by a tether and interfere with an opposing Alliance Robot are considered detached for the purpose of this rule. If the mini-bot or connecting scissor extension interfere with an opposing Alliance Robot, a Major Penalty and a Yellow Card will be issued.

                        Finally, for your consideration, how will the mini-bot and rigid scissor extension hold up against a Robot playing defense directly against the mini-bot? FIRST Tech Challenge games are highly interactive; Robot-to-Robot contact and defensive game play should be expected. Is the mini-bot and scissor extension robust enough to survive a push or impact from another Robot?

                        Answer 2: Answer #1 also applies to Question #2.


                        • #42
                          &lt;S2&gt; Robot Extension Outside the Playing Field Perimeter

                          Originally posted by FTC10421
                          Regarding our cap ball lifting mechanism, our robot uses the side of the playing field to lock a door hinge that would allow the mechanism to lift the ball. The arm goes outside the playing field, but it does not make contact with anything on the outside. There's a rule in the game manual that states that the robot cannot make contact anything outside the playing field; however, it does not touch anything outside the field.

                          Question: Would we be allowed to use the side of the playing field to lock the mechanism, so we could lift the ball?

                          Answer: The intent of rule <S2> is to prevent penalizing Inadvertent safe Robot extension outside the Playing Field Perimeter. To keep the rule simple, the Game Design Committee selected contact with something outside the Playing Field Perimeter to determine if the extension is unsafe. The Robot's actions described in the question violate rule <S2> because it is a planned extension outside of the Playing Field Perimeter that is a safety risk for referees standing nearby.


                          • #43
                            &lt;G15&gt; Destruction, Damage, Tipping, etc. - Robot dragging a cable around the field

                            Originally posted by FTC8390
                            Question: Is it legal to build a robot that is comprised of 2 minibots connected together by a long tether that stretches across the field?

                            Answer: A Robot that drags a cable around the Playing Field Floor is an entanglement risk and is not allowed by rule <G15>.

                            Additional concerns include:
                            1) Particles and Cap Balls drug by the tether would be considered Controlled.
                            2) Rule <G13> consequences of a Major Penalty and Yellow Card will be issued if a mini-bot or the tether affects game play by an opposing Alliance Robot.


                            • #44
                              Understanding Deliberate and Chronic and &lt;G15&gt; Destruction, Damage, Tipping, etc.

                              Originally posted by FTC10096
                              Can you provide clarification on the meaning of deliberate and quantify chronic as it relates to <G15>?

                              Answer: In general, deliberate means "with intent" and chronic means "repeated numerous times". i.e. we use standard definitions.

                              For <G15> to apply, referees are looking for contact that is clearly part of a strategy to destroy/damage/tip/entangle game elements or opposing alliance robots. Repeated, hard contact that is outside of the course of normal game play may be an indication that <G15> may apply. Simply making contact with a robot while playing defense is not enough by itself to justify a penalty under <G15>.

                              Keep in mind that FIRST Tech Challenge is a highly interactive game and some robot-to-robot contact should be expected and should be designed for ...
                              Last edited by Buckaroo Banzai; 12-15-2016, 02:11 AM.


                              • #45
                                Closed Recycling System for Particles - A ramp on top of a Robot

                                Originally posted by FTC4137
                                We have 3 related questions we would like to ask:

                                Question 1: Is a sort-of ramp allowed on the top of the Robot to direct any balls that fall on top of it to fall behind the robot?

                                Question 2: If using a very accurate launcher to consistently score in the same position in the vortex allowing the ball to always fall in approximately the same location (this has been clarified as legal), are we allowed to have the balls fall on said ramp, essentially rolling down right behind the robot?

                                Question 3: If the situation addressed in question 2 is legal, would we be allowed to open up a net in order to cover a larger area, and have the net direct the balls onto the ramp, eventually rolling down right in front of the robot?

                                Thank you.

                                Answer 1: The Robot construction rules in the Game Manual Part 1 do not prohibit ramps. From a game rule standpoint, it depends on how the ramp is used during a Match. The referees will determine if: 1) the ramp reduces the randomness of where Scored Particles return to the Playing Field Floor or, 2) if the ramp is used to Control a Scored Particle before it contacts the Playing Field Floor or Center Vortex Base. A ramp that performs either of these functions is not allowed. A sloped surface that is intended to prevent Inadvertently Possessing a Particle inside the Robot structure is allowed.

                                See posts #2, #4, and #11 in the "Miscellaneous Game Questions - Answer Thread" for guidance concerning Closed Recycling Systems.

                                Answer 2: See Answer #1.

                                Answer 3: Opening a net to cover a larger area is not allowed because it is intended to Control a Scored Particle before it contacts the Playing Field Floor or Center Vortex Base.