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  • Supers to Worlds in 2017

    Now that we know there will be four super regional events and two championships in 2017, it seems like something else has to change. Otherwise if the number of teams attending each event stay the same it will make the Supers almost pointless because the vast majority of teams will be able to advance.

    Obviously, the size of the each world championship can't be reduced because that would totally defeat the purpose of splitting the event into two. So can FIRST tell us if the plan is to increase the size of the Supers? And maybe extend the events by another day?

  • #2
    They Don't Know

    Originally posted by ViperMentor View Post
    Now that we know there will be four super regional events and two championships in 2017, it seems like something else has to change. Otherwise if the number of teams attending each event stay the same it will make the Supers almost pointless because the vast majority of teams will be able to advance.

    Obviously, the size of the each world championship can't be reduced because that would totally defeat the purpose of splitting the event into two. So can FIRST tell us if the plan is to increase the size of the Supers? And maybe extend the events by another day?
    There is another thread where FIRST has stated they don't know what they are doing in regards to progression to "not Worlds" in 2017. It's here: New World Championship Locations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ViperMentor View Post
      Now that we know there will be four super regional events and two championships in 2017, it seems like something else has to change. Otherwise if the number of teams attending each event stay the same it will make the Supers almost pointless because the vast majority of teams will be able to advance.

      Obviously, the size of the each world championship can't be reduced because that would totally defeat the purpose of splitting the event into two. So can FIRST tell us if the plan is to increase the size of the Supers? And maybe extend the events by another day?
      Hi ViperMentor,

      We're working on the plan now, and we'll share it as soon as it's been approved. Please be patient while we work through the details.

      Thanks,

      JoAnn

      Comment


      • #4
        With kickoff a little more than a week away it would be nice if the plan for this next season would be communicated with us.

        I agree with the original comment that not allowing more teams to move on from State to Super Regionals would make Super Regionals pointless since over half of the teams would have to advance to the keep the world championships at the same size.

        If you don't want to increase the number of teams that are participating in a super regional then it would make sense to create more super regionals but from different press releases it doesn't appear that this is going to be the case.

        Can you shed some light on this issue as teams begin to plan and budget for their season or at the very least could you give us a date that this release will be coming out?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FTC5501 View Post
          With kickoff a little more than a week away it would be nice if the plan for this next season would be communicated with us.

          I agree with the original comment that not allowing more teams to move on from State to Super Regionals would make Super Regionals pointless since over half of the teams would have to advance to the keep the world championships at the same size.

          If you don't want to increase the number of teams that are participating in a super regional then it would make sense to create more super regionals but from different press releases it doesn't appear that this is going to be the case.

          Can you shed some light on this issue as teams begin to plan and budget for their season or at the very least could you give us a date that this release will be coming out?
          One interesting data point: This link says "The FRC and FTC programs will have Waitlist slots available for both Championships. The details for Waitlist slots, along with the number of earned slots assigned to each FRC District, each FTC Super Regional event and countries outside the U.S., and each FLL and FLLJr. region and Partner are still being worked out."

          I believe that FRC has had waitlists for a while: they are described in this document. Waitlist spots are essentially invitations that a team doesn't "earn" through the normal merit-based advancement process. Instead, the team signs up for the waitlist and is "randomly selected" to attend a Championship from the list (with veteran teams that haven't been to championship for a long time having a greater chance of being picked). I believe that this will be the first time that FTC will have waitlists as part of the advancement process. This will add an additional random component to the set of teams that attend the FTC championships, which FTC has never had but which FRC has had for a while.
          CHEER4FTC website and facebook online FTC resources.
          Providing support for FTC Teams in the Charlottesville, VA area and beyond.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Microburst View Post
            Thanks for your question, FTC5501. We haven't made any decisions yet, other than the one we're all talking about - Two World Championships. Our goal really is to provide more students with a World-Level experience, and you're right, adding more Super Regionals, and increasing the number of teams that advance from each state is an idea that has great merit and makes a lot of sense. It's an idea that is definitely on the table for discussion. I know that's not the more definitive answer you're looking for, but right now, no ideas and suggestions are 'out of bounds'.

            JoAnn
            Originally posted by Microburst View Post
            ... We're very interested in hearing what our teams, volunteers, sponsors and supporters would like to see. I can't promise that we can make every idea happen, but we're definitely listening - so please let us know! ... please, post your great ideas here, or email them to ftcteams@usfirst(dot)org, and encourage your peers to do the same.

            JoAnn
            Hi JoAnn,

            I think the comments on this thread point out that you cannot restructure Worlds without also restructuring Super Regionals.

            If it is too late to restructure Super Regionals, then my suggestion would be to suspend Super Regionals for 2017. For 2017, teams advance from states/leagues directly to one of the Worlds. This is how most regions outside of mainland US advance to Worlds, so states/leagues need not be any different than regions outside mainland US.

            Super Regionals is a massive burden in terms of time, money, and effort for volunteers, teams, sponsors, and especially students. Without a restructuring of Super Regionals the drawbacks of Super Regionals seem to outweigh the benefits.

            Alec

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by FTC5501 View Post
              With kickoff a little more than a week away it would be nice if the plan for this next season would be communicated with us.

              I agree with the original comment that not allowing more teams to move on from State to Super Regionals would make Super Regionals pointless since over half of the teams would have to advance to the keep the world championships at the same size.

              If you don't want to increase the number of teams that are participating in a super regional then it would make sense to create more super regionals but from different press releases it doesn't appear that this is going to be the case.

              Can you shed some light on this issue as teams begin to plan and budget for their season or at the very least could you give us a date that this release will be coming out?


              Thanks for your question, FTC5501. We should have the details worked out and an announcement out in the next 2 or 3 weeks. We appreciate your patience while we do our best to get this right. In this season, we will not be adding more Super-Regional events.

              JoAnn

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Alec View Post
                Hi JoAnn,

                I think the comments on this thread point out that you cannot restructure Worlds without also restructuring Super Regionals.

                If it is too late to restructure Super Regionals, then my suggestion would be to suspend Super Regionals for 2017. For 2017, teams advance from states/leagues directly to one of the Worlds. This is how most regions outside of mainland US advance to Worlds, so states/leagues need not be any different than regions outside mainland US.

                Super Regionals is a massive burden in terms of time, money, and effort for volunteers, teams, sponsors, and especially students. Without a restructuring of Super Regionals the drawbacks of Super Regionals seem to outweigh the benefits.

                Alec


                Hi Alec,

                I see your point, but, we will not be suspending Super-Regional events for the upcoming season, and at least for this season, we won't be adding any Super-Regional events. Super-Regional events provide an opportunity for more teams to advance to a larger, more celebratory event. We like that the Super-Regional events feel a bit like the World Championship, and we think that most teams do too.

                There should be an announcement with the details about how teams advance in the next couple of weeks. We've been focusing our attentions on getting ready for kick-off

                Thanks!

                JoAnn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Microburst View Post
                  There should be an announcement with the details about how teams advance in the next couple of weeks. We've been focusing our attentions on getting ready for kick-off
                  (BTW, Love your choice of "microburst" for your natural disaster-themed online moniker. What's the story, there? I study those, sometimes, IRL).

                  Since (maybe) this still seems open for discussion, I'll toss an idea out there for an advancement structure:

                  1) X number of teams advance directly to Worlds (N or S) from each Regional Championship, starting with 1 Inspire and working down the list.

                  2) Y number of teams (farther down the advancement list) advance to a SuperRegional from each Regional Championship as a "second chance" at Worlds.

                  3) Z number of teams (a smaller number than now) advance from each SuperRegional to Worlds

                  4) Have a weighted lottery based on "length of time since last championship" (as FRC does) for the remaining spots.

                  That will give an even larger number of teams the opportunity to play at a higher level, and increase the level of play in the future because a deeper pool of teams is making it to SuperRegionals (and seeing a higher level of play - feeding into their goals the next year) rather than the same elite teams each year.

                  Travis
                  Last edited by BSV; 09-03-2016, 10:53 AM.
                  FTC 4962 / 3638
                  FLL 11 / 21 / 9293

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For the past several months JoAnn has been graciously asking teams for ideas on how to restructure super regionals for 2017, and for future years. I'm surprised very few teams have expressed their ideas given that teams are the main stakeholders of the super regionals.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BSV View Post
                      (BTW, Love your choice of "microburst" for your natural disaster-themed online moniker. What's the story, there? I study those, sometimes, IRL).

                      Since (maybe) this still seems open for discussion, I'll toss an idea out there for an advancement structure:

                      1) X number of teams advance directly to Worlds (N or S) from each Regional Championship, starting with 1 Inspire and working down the list.

                      2) Y number of teams (farther down the advancement list) advance to a SuperRegional from each Regional Championship as a "second chance" at Worlds.

                      3) Z number of teams (a smaller number than now) advance from each SuperRegional to Worlds

                      4) Have a weighted lottery based on "length of time since last championship" (as FRC does) for the remaining spots.

                      That will give an even larger number of teams the opportunity to play at a higher level, and increase the level of play in the future because a deeper pool of teams is making it to SuperRegionals (and seeing a higher level of play - feeding into their goals the next year) rather than the same elite teams each year.

                      Travis
                      I am assuming your "regional championships" are aka State Championships. I think your idea has a great deal of merit. The bottle neck for advancement for most states is States to Regionals. If FIRST just advances more out of Supers it dilutes their importance. I've heard many teams say that once we get to Regionals it's pretty smooth sailing to Championships since so many are going from Supers now that there are two final events but Supers remains the same. Giving more teams the opportunity to compete at Regionals is a good thing. It's much more accessible cost and time wise. Our team has gone to Worlds for the last three years. I guess that makes us one of the "elite" teams though we never take advancing for granted. Our team really likes Regionals. However, if we were fortunate enough to be among the top ranking teams in our State we would be fine going directly to Championships. It would be easier on our budget as well.

                      Note - the preferred solution is to have more Super Regionals. The approach outlined above is merely a stop gap measure given the current circumstances.

                      FTC - please give this approach serious consideration.

                      Thank you.
                      Last edited by FTC4318; 09-18-2016, 07:38 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FTC4318 View Post
                        I am assuming your "regional championships" are aka State Championships. I think your idea has a great deal of merit. The bottle neck for advancement for most states is States to [Super] Regionals. If FIRST just advances more out of Supers it dilutes their importance [...] Our team really likes [Super] Regionals. However, if we were fortunate enough to be among the top ranking teams in our State we would be fine going directly to [World]Championships. It would be easier on our budget as well.

                        Note - the preferred solution is to have more Super Regionals. The approach outlined above is merely a stop gap measure given the current circumstances.

                        FTC - please give this approach serious consideration.

                        Thank you.
                        I think that BSV's solution can be a great permanent solution, and not just a stop-gap measure: ~Double the number of teams advancing from States. Top half of teams advancing from States advance directly to Worlds; bottom half advance to Super Regionals.

                        This gives mainland US teams an opportunity to advance directly to Worlds (same perk that regions outside of mainland US already enjoy) and also reduces the pressure to increase the number of super regional events any time soon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Alec View Post
                          I think that BSV's solution can be a great permanent solution, and not just a stop-gap measure: ~Double the number of teams advancing from States. Top half of teams advancing from States advance directly to Worlds; bottom half advance to Super Regionals.

                          This gives mainland US teams an opportunity to advance directly to Worlds (same perk that regions outside of mainland US already enjoy) and also reduces the pressure to increase the number of super regional events any time soon.
                          What I would do is send 1 Inspire and Captain of Winning directly to Championships. That's ~50 teams (not every state has a championship) per FTC Championship event. Grab 25 from each Super, as in past years, fill in with International and wild card.

                          Lets that first pick for the winning alliance progress which is key. Too many good teams get left behind due to the luck of the partner draw in the pool matches in those states with just 3 spots at Supers.

                          Would making it optional work for those teams who find themselves in a "direct to championship" position who don't have the funds to go to championship but can manage Supers? Or who really want to try to go to both? If they take a pass the next in line get the "direct to championship" option?

                          Another positive outcome may be more scrimmages post States. The two top teams going right to Championships will be motivated to host/participate in scrimmages to keep their skills up.
                          Last edited by FTC4318; 09-19-2016, 11:54 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Alec View Post
                            I think that BSV's solution can be a great permanent solution, and not just a stop-gap measure: ~Double the number of teams advancing from States. Top half of teams advancing from States advance directly to Worlds; bottom half advance to Super Regionals.

                            This gives mainland US teams an opportunity to advance directly to Worlds (same perk that regions outside of mainland US already enjoy) and also reduces the pressure to increase the number of super regional events any time soon.
                            No sure it's a perk being outside the US and having another level for international regions would require significant travel expense for almost all but the host country teams. Without the direct worlds "perk" many international teams just wouldn't have the funds to participate that far.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FTC5110 View Post
                              No sure it's a perk being outside the US and having another level for international regions would require significant travel expense for almost all but the host country teams. Without the direct worlds "perk" many international teams just wouldn't have the funds to participate that far.
                              My apologies for the bad choice of words. Thanks very much for pointing it out. Alec

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