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  • New World Championship Locations

    I just watched the video about the new locations coming in 2016 and 2017 with 2 Championships. This does pose a few logistical questions in regards to FTC:

    1. Are teams going to be limited to which Championship they can advance to based on their location or will we have teams that will try to compete at both championships?

    2. Will there be more super-regional tournaments?

    The idea to have 2 championships to involve more teams is a great idea. However, about 1/3 of the teams already advance from a super-regional to a championship. If we keep the same number of super-regionals then we will be advancing more than 1/2 of the teams from there to the championships. If this is the case then it still causes issues on the state level where we currently have states that can only advance 5 or 6 teams from the state level to the super-regionals. I would hope some thought would be put into this so more teams can advance out of the state level.

  • #2
    I think these are the types of issues that fall into the "haven't been decided yet by FIRST" category. Remember that the 2015-16 season will still have one championship; it's the 2016-2017 season which will introduce the second championship.
    John McDonnell
    Co-Mentor, Team 5873
    https://www.facebook.com/Team5873

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by FTC5501 View Post
      ... where we currently have states that can only advance 5 or 6 teams from the state level to the super-regionals.
      ... or the many states who only advance the minimum of 3 teams.
      --
      Jim Poston
      Virginia City, Nevada USA

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by poston View Post
        ... or the many states who only advance the minimum of 3 teams.
        I believe that advancement numbers are determined by the number
        of teams in a region. Los Angeles, for example, has roughly 150 teams
        and advanced 7 teams out of that region alone.

        Idaho has 22 teams in the entire state. If Idaho advances the minumum 3
        teams it has advanced 13% of its participating teams to Los Angeles
        advancing 4% of its participating teams.

        The super regional this year was awesome, and I'd like to see the number of
        teams competing increased, but the proportional advancement at the present
        time seems fair enough as it goes, and is far better than the old system where
        only the Inspire award winner got to go to worlds because there were too many
        regional championships and not enough slots.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by skatefriday View Post
          I believe that advancement numbers are determined by the number.
          of teams in a region. Los Angeles, for example, has roughly 150 teams
          and advanced 7 teams out of that region alone.

          Idaho has 22 teams in the entire state. If Idaho advances the minumum 3
          teams it has advanced 13% of its participating teams to Los Angeles
          advancing 4% of its participating teams.

          The super regional this year was awesome, and I'd like to see the number of
          teams competing increased, but the proportional advancement at the present
          time seems fair enough as it goes, and is far better than the old system where
          only the Inspire award winner got to go to worlds because there were too many
          regional championships and not enough slots.
          At least at the East Super Regional, your home state didn't seem to line up with what state championship you qualified at. For example, the Vermont state championship advanced 3 teams. They were from CT, VA, and RI. Only 14 of the 32 teams entered were actually from Vermont, and there were teams from 8 other states, including New Mexico!

          http://www.uvm.edu/~first/?Page=team...m-submenu.html

          Because these states are so small/close, many teams tried to qualify in 2 or more states. The state championships for NYC, NJ, PA, MD, and DE are all within a 2-3 hour drive of each other. A total of 13 of the 72 teams that advanced to the East super regional were not from their home state's championship. It seems to be an advantage to live in the East region . . .

          http://www.ftceast.org/teams/2014-2015-teams
          Jim Bates
          Atlantic County NJ 4-H Robotics
          FLL Teams 71 & 13365
          FTC Team 9765

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JimInNJ View Post
            At least at the East Super Regional, your home state didn't seem to line up with what state championship you qualified at ... Because these states are so small/close, many teams tried to qualify in 2 or more states. The state championships for NYC, NJ, PA, MD, and DE are all within a 2-3 hour drive of each other. A total of 13 of the 72 teams that advanced to the East super regional were not from their home state's championship. It seems to be an advantage to live in the East region . . .
            It was similar at the West Supers. 14 of 72 advanced through other states. (Alaska is kind of tied to their own state, and Hawai'i advances directly to Worlds.) There were three state championships that didn't advance anyone from their own state.

            So there's a lot of boundary crossing out west, too, the teams just have to drive farther. One team from northern California qualified out of Wyoming, 15 hours one way! But everything's far out west - our own state championship is 7 hrs away, so distance is relative. And only half the teams there were from Nevada.

            Last year, we twice drove 10 hrs one-way to Arizona for a qualifier and championship, 9 hrs to San Diego, 7 hrs to Las Vegas, and four 2-4 hr trips to northern California. Ironically, Supers was our closest tournament at 2.5 hrs. Our robot had 6,000 miles on it even before we went to Worlds!

            We scaled way back this year, and made it to Supers, but did not advance to Worlds. Correlation?

            Although it sometimes makes it harder to qualify, I like the mixing across regional boundaries. It makes championships kind of like Supers, with teams traveling a long ways and making for an exciting atmosphere.

            Originally posted by skatefriday View Post
            The super regional this year was awesome, and I'd like to see the number of teams competing increased, but the proportional advancement at the present time seems fair enough as it goes, and is far better than the old system where only the Inspire award winner got to go to worlds because there were too many regional championships and not enough slots.
            I agree, Supers is far better than the old system. And I'm not proposing a change to the proportional advancement, but consider that with only 3 teams advancing, only 1 team advances from the robot game. Also, unless there are more than 6 berths, no award winner other than Inspire can advance.
            --
            Jim Poston
            Virginia City, Nevada USA

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by poston View Post
              I agree, Supers is far better than the old system. And I'm not proposing a change to the proportional advancement, but consider that with only 3 teams advancing, only 1 team advances from the robot game. Also, unless there are more than 6 berths, no award winner other than Inspire can advance.
              I agree that the Super Regional system works well. What happens in 2017 when there are twice as many berths at two World Championships? Do we go to 8 Super Regionals? With the amazing growth that FTC is experiencing, it probably makes sense to expand the Super Regional system too.
              Jim Bates
              Atlantic County NJ 4-H Robotics
              FLL Teams 71 & 13365
              FTC Team 9765

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Folks,

                I've just started a new thread for World Championship 2017 - I'm going to move this whole thread there. Thanks!

                JoAnn

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JimInNJ View Post
                  I agree that the Super Regional system works well. What happens in 2017 when there are twice as many berths at two World Championships? Do we go to 8 Super Regionals? With the amazing growth that FTC is experiencing, it probably makes sense to expand the Super Regional system too.
                  Yeah, that does make sense. I would like to see the Super Regionals expanded so that more teams get to experience it. Now, at some championships, only about 10% advance to Supers, but at Supers, close to 30% advance to Worlds.

                  But adding Supers isn't a trivial exercise. I know that they take a huge amount of work compared to championships. Then again, the workload is being doubled already with two "world championships".

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know we are just in the preliminary phases of this new rollout. However, it would be nice if someone from FIRST could weigh in as to if they are trying to work on increasing the number of teams that can advance from a state championship to a super-regional.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FTC5501 View Post
                      I know we are just in the preliminary phases of this new rollout. However, it would be nice if someone from FIRST could weigh in as to if they are trying to work on increasing the number of teams that can advance from a state championship to a super-regional.
                      Hello FTC5501,

                      This is one of the questions that we just don't have the answer to, yet. We're very interested in hearing what our teams, volunteers, sponsors and supporters would like to see. I can't promise that we can make every idea happen, but we're definitely listening - so please let us know!

                      As more info becomes available, we'll publish it on the usfirst.org website, through email blasts, in our blog, and over social media. In the meanwhile, please, post your great ideas here, or email them to ftcteams@usfirst(dot)org, and encourage your peers to do the same.

                      JoAnn

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I feel like part of the fun in worlds is competing against the best of the best, and making connections with other teams. This would make it a lot harder to do if there were two locations, you would only be competing against half of the best. That being said, I think that we should allow more teams in at the state level. In Utah we have around 30 teams, and only 3 advance. Of this only 1 is for robot. I think FIRST should make an equal percentage cut at the super regional level as the state level. I think a fair percentage is 15% at both levels. This would make super regionals have a total of 750 teams. Meaning that the current number of super regionals would need to be increased from 4 to 6 super regionals. Then super regionals would also allow 15 percent of the teams in, which would then boil worlds down to 128 of the best teams.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by FTC5501 View Post
                          I know we are just in the preliminary phases of this new rollout. However, it would be nice if someone from FIRST could weigh in as to if they are trying to work on increasing the number of teams that can advance from a state championship to a super-regional.
                          Thanks for your question, FTC5501. We haven't made any decisions yet, other than the one we're all talking about - Two World Championships. Our goal really is to provide more students with a World-Level experience, and you're right, adding more Super Regionals, and increasing the number of teams that advance from each state is an idea that has great merit and makes a lot of sense. It's an idea that is definitely on the table for discussion. I know that's not the more definitive answer you're looking for, but right now, no ideas and suggestions are 'out of bounds'.

                          JoAnn

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It might be better to talk about advancement percentages or such. I think we advanced approximately 25 of 75 teams from each superregional to worlds (33%). If you double the world slots that would mean advancing 50 of 75 teams(66%), clearly that would be too many. FRC advances a large portion of it's teams to worlds, but the FRC community is different, and has resources ($) that the FTC teams do not in general. Does FTC need to double the amount of teams at Worlds already? Maybe the split should just be FRC at one event, FTC/FLL at another as there are many who don't like the idea of parallel championships?


                            As a coach, I like the idea that my teams have to work hard to get the opportunity to attend worlds. Raising funds for such a trip would not be something I'd like to have to do every year if the bar is set low. Many more teams are within driving distances to Super Regionals and those costs seem much more approachable.

                            I'm sure everyone has their own idea (which is probably different than FIRST's) of how many teams should advance from a given event, but (IMHO) 25% is generous, I'd probably like to see something more in the 10-20% range. At the state level this number is also inflated since many teams compete in multiple state events.

                            What is FIRST's thought of what the ideal percentage of teams that should advance to state championships, superregionals, worlds?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm not aware if this has been expressed yet or not but with 2 world championships will they combine all levels of FIRST into the same venue again? I think everyone in one venue gives more of a World Championship feel instead of having it spread between different locations. Due to the schedules throughout the day it makes it hard to travel from one location to the next to see other levels. Union Station really made FTC feel more like another Super Regional event than it did when we were all in the Dome.

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