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  • Double checking data entry at events

    Last year, I had read about a team changing a loss to a win by going to the question box. I thought that would be about as rare as winning the lottery. However, after the scoreboard showed a loss where we were confident we had won, we tracked the next round very closely. Sure enough, we had won, but the scoreboard showed a loss. On that round, we did go to the question box since we had a detailed description of the score. The score sheets that the judges on the field completed matched precisely with what we had written down. However, there were two data entry errors. Our score was shorted and the opposing alliance score was inflated.

    A simple fix would be to have a second person compare the score sheets to the score board after the data entry portion. I don't know how prevalent errors are, but two data entry errors on one round seem to indicate the ease of making a mistake transferring the information.

  • #2
    Referees are allowed to graciously double check their score sheets with the drive teams at the conclusion of a match, before field reset:

    Originally posted by RoyM View Post
    In most tournaments we've participated in, immediately at the conclusion of the match and before field reset, the head referee has held very brief meeting including a representative of each drive team to go over the scoresheets. This allows everyone to verify and understand how the match was tallied with the evidence still on the field in case there is a disagreement. Is this actually a required, or perhaps only a recommended practice?
    Check out the full discussion here.
    Last edited by Alec; 11-28-2018, 12:05 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Alec View Post
      Referees are allowed to graciously double check their score sheets with the drive teams at the conclusion of a match, before field reset:



      Check out the full discussion here.
      Yes, I remember reading that thread. I believe that part should actually be required. It only takes a very short amount of time and any questions could be addressed right then and there.

      My issue on this post is the next step in the process, though. The score sheets were actually correctly completed, but two data entry errors occurred in transferring the written score sheets into the electronic score tracking system. Whoever is entering the data should have someone following behind them on each round to double check that the scores on the board accurately reflect the scores on the score sheet. There are very many challenges related to the game. To overcome the many challenges to lose a match simply due to someone's poor data entry skills is extremely discouraging. Adding a step in the process to ensure someone else is double checking the data entry would be a good addition.

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      • #4
        The new scorekeeper software allows scoring refs to enter the scores live via tablet or phone. The results in one less potential interface for a data error as there is no more copying results from paper to computer. But refs can still make errors in entering the data with the software. of course. Maybe work with your Affiliate Partner to see if they might consider moving from the paper scoresheets to the new electronic scoring?
        CHEER4FTC website and facebook online FTC resources.
        Providing support for FTC Teams in the Charlottesville, VA area and beyond.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Cheer4FTC View Post
          The new scorekeeper software allows scoring refs to enter the scores live via tablet or phone. The results in one less potential interface for a data error as there is no more copying results from paper to computer. But refs can still make errors in entering the data with the software. of course. Maybe work with your Affiliate Partner to see if they might consider moving from the paper scoresheets to the new electronic scoring?
          That sounds like improvement! Is there still a way for the scoring refs to show the scores to the drive teams? Our experience with the two data entry errors was in a semi-final round at the end of the year last year. We haven't had our first competition this year. It would be nice if the refs enter it directly and allow the drive teams to review it on the spot. You are correct in that would eliminate a step and the corresponding errors. Human error is unavoidable, so there should always be a check and balance in place with regards to any data entry. Eliminating a step is even better, as long as there is some check and balance in place to catch errors.

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          • #6
            There is an Audience Display in the new scorekeeper software too that shows in detail how everything is being scored, live. It would be great if this type of detail was shown alongside the timer on the Field Display that teams can see too, so teams can check both the time and the scoring as it's happening and after the match before the score is finalized. Put that on the wishlist for future tech updates.

            The display is shown on the page in the direct link below:
            https://www.firstinspires.org/sites/...al.pdf#page=42
            Last edited by Cheer4FTC; 11-29-2018, 10:27 AM.
            CHEER4FTC website and facebook online FTC resources.
            Providing support for FTC Teams in the Charlottesville, VA area and beyond.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cheer4FTC View Post
              There is an Audience Display in the new scorekeeper software too that shows in detail how everything is being scored, live. It would be great if this type of detail was shown alongside the timer on the Field Display that teams can see too, so teams can check both the time and the scoring as it's happening and after the match before the score is finalized. Put that on the wishlist for future tech updates.

              The display is shown on the page in the direct link below:
              https://www.firstinspires.org/sites/...al.pdf#page=42
              Wow! Seeing the scores real-time as they are entered would be awesome! Our first match is in 2 days, so it will be interesting to see if they utilize this feature. Thanks for sharing!

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              • #8
                FYI, here's a github issue thread on the scorekeeper software repo.
                https://github.com/FIRST-Tech-Challe...per/issues/213

                The devs say 1. they are working on including scoring details as part of the default Field Display typically used on Field Monitors for an upcoming release, and 2. by using the Advanced Settings, event organizers can display this data already by using an Audience Display appearance with Field Display behavior on the Field Monitor.
                CHEER4FTC website and facebook online FTC resources.
                Providing support for FTC Teams in the Charlottesville, VA area and beyond.

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                • #9
                  We had our first competition this weekend. The scores were on the screen in real time! It was absolutely wonderful! We only had one slight issue where a "parked" on autonomous wasn't added. With the score given real time, we were able to ask the ref quickly and it was corrected. Great job FIRST! That is a very nice addition!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mentor 777 View Post
                    We had our first competition this weekend. The scores were on the screen in real time! It was absolutely wonderful! We only had one slight issue where a "parked" on autonomous wasn't added. With the score given real time, we were able to ask the ref quickly and it was corrected. Great job FIRST! That is a very nice addition!


                    Hello Mentor 777,

                    Thanks for your kudos! We're pretty happy with it, but it's great to hear feedback from teams.

                    JoAnn

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