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Why shouldn't autonomous scoring of zip line climers give 20 pts.- same as pre-load

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  • Why shouldn't autonomous scoring of zip line climers give 20 pts.- same as pre-load

    It seems to me that awarding 20 Pts for each zip line climber that could be scored in autonomous would make the game more interesting.
    If a team is going to attempt the risky move of trying to reach the high zone in autonomous they deserve the option of getting some extra points on the way up if they can release climbers along the way, and these should be counted twice, just like with the preloaded pair of climbers.
    IMO, even just climbing onto the low zone in autonomous with enough precision to also trip the lower release deserves an extra 20 points in addition to the 10 pts. awarded for the climb.

    -Dick Ledford
    -Dick Ledford, 2010-16 Former Mentor - 3507 Robotheosis

  • #2
    Rules should not be changed after the season has started. Teams have made design decisions based on the scoring opportunities. Just my opinion. I am not a FIRST official.

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    • #3
      If such changes would make for better competition, as long as everyone has same opportunity to take advantage of such changes it is fair.
      All teams would have the same opportunity to modify their autonomous code, and the same amount of time to do it.
      few teams have yet to master climbing past 1st zone of the mountain in autonomous anyway. This might give them some incentive to try harder.
      Why bother if the point reward (versus difficulty) isn't being offered

      -Dick Ledford
      -Dick Ledford, 2010-16 Former Mentor - 3507 Robotheosis

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      • #4
        There are lots of changes that *could* make a better game. While changing now would give everyone equal opportunity, if it had been in the original rules there would be many teams who's design plans would have changed as a result.

        The color sensors present a huge investment for only 20 pts, I'm not sure why they were valued so low - that is less than 2 pcs of debris!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RRLedford View Post
          If such changes would make for better competition, as long as everyone has same opportunity to take advantage of such changes it is fair.
          All teams would have the same opportunity to modify their autonomous code, and the same amount of time to do it.
          few teams have yet to master climbing past 1st zone of the mountain in autonomous anyway. This might give them some incentive to try harder.
          Why bother if the point reward (versus difficulty) isn't being offered

          -Dick Ledford
          Teams do not have an equal opportunity at this point in the season. A team that has already prioritized their design to release climbers would have a HUGE advantage at this point under the new scoring over a team that chose to prioritize dumping climbers during autonomous because that is where the points were. If you already have the mechanics and just have to write the software that is easier than having to both design the mechanics and write the software.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by NEOFTC View Post
            Teams do not have an equal opportunity at this point in the season. A team that has already prioritized their design to release climbers would have a HUGE advantage at this point under the new scoring over a team that chose to prioritize dumping climbers during autonomous because that is where the points were. If you already have the mechanics and just have to write the software that is easier than having to both design the mechanics and write the software.
            Well you could say that the teams who already can drive up the mountain fairly well would also have an advantage, since they might actually be able reach the trip levers.
            You could just say that any team that is already more capable and quick at deploying new functionality, would at this point in the season, have an advantage over the less capable teams, regardless of the early prioritizing decisions.

            Despite these considerations, I still think that everything that gives scoring in the game after the 20 seconds autonomous period, should also give scoring with a bonus if accomplished in autonomous period, and the % of bonus should consistent for all tasks. This would mean that scoring debris in autonomous should also be allowed with more points than in teleop. If teams chose to focus on one way of scoring to the exclusion of another, they could still reap the proportional benefit by doing that choice in autonomous. This would encourage more autonomous programming. Even pushing blocks into the floor goal in autonomous might stimulate less accomplished teams to work harder at developing their skills in that direction.

            There is only 20 seconds, so really, how much (unfair?) advantage can making a mid-season game rules change, at this point in the season, really give any team, no matter what they have already deployed and accomplished?
            I doubt we would be seeing any bar hangs happening in autonomous, but if it did occur, I would be most excited to witness it, along with any of the other tougher ways of scoring that might be accomplished in autonomous if the rules only allowed for this to be.

            -Dick Ledford.
            Last edited by RRLedford; 02-07-2016, 02:17 PM.
            -Dick Ledford, 2010-16 Former Mentor - 3507 Robotheosis

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            • #7
              Originally posted by RRLedford View Post
              There is only 20 seconds

              30 seconds.

              But while I'm here, I might as well throw my $.02 in.

              I'm not a fan of changing the scoring mid season. But I do agree that automous scoring is way under valued, and I think it shows at competitions when 75% of the robots don't even bother running an autonomous program.

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              • #8
                Hi Folks,

                We'll definitely consider what you've posted here when we work through the scoring values for next season's game. We do not make major modifications to the game mid season because it isn't fair to our teams and it isn't fair to our event volunteers.

                Thanks for your great thoughts!

                JoAnn

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