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Thread: Penalties - Answers to Questions

  1. #31
    Game Design Committee Member GDC Ripple Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTC4311 View Post
    1. If a red robot pushes a red crate so it breaks the plane of the blue protected zone, there is no penalty on blue, however, what happens if a blue robot pushes the crate further into the blue protected zone after red broke the plane (and the crate was not removed from the zone)? Is there any penalty?

    2. If a red robot pushes a red crate so it breaks the plane of the blue ramp so that part of the crate is on the mat and part on the ramp, what happens if a blue robot pushes the crate further up the blue ramp after red initially broke the plane (and the crate was not removed from the ramp) without the crate losing contact with the mat? Is there any penalty?

    3. In scenario 2, what happens if the blue robot pushes the crate far enough up the ramp that it breaks contact with the field mat, violating
    <SG5>.

    4. If the red robot positioned red robots fully on the ramp (prior to the end game), they could block all access to the ramp because <SG5> would prevent the blue robot from touching them, since they are not touching the field mat, so blue can't push them out of the way. Is this correct or does it fall under rule <G10> - one alliance cannot cause another to violate a rule?


    A1: no penalty - crate already in protected zone

    A2: no penalty - crate already in contact w/ home zone

    A3: no penalty - crate maintains contact w/ ramp (i.e. not lifted)

    A4: assume that you mean "red robot positioned red CRATES fully on ramp ..." - no penalty (combination of questions 2 & 3)

  2. #32
    Game Design Committee Member GDC Snowball Effect's Avatar
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    Post #31 Clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC2843 View Post
    This is a request for clarification on post #31 in penalties. The fourth question is implying that if a red robot pushes crates on the blue ramp, they could effectively block the blue ramp and prevent the blue robot from access to the ramp and platform. I just want to verify that a red crate has NO protection on the blue ramp EXCEPT the provision of only being able to touch one side by a blue robot. The blue robot would be free to push the red crate off of the ramp (only contacting one side) without penalty even if there is a ball in the crate and the crate is tipped because a red crate is only protected from descoring on the red home zone and red protected zone.

    That is correct. You can spill the red crate where it sits. It is not in the red home zone or protected area and therefore has no protection

  3. #33
    FTC BLOCK PARTY! Game Expert GDC Building Block's Avatar
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    Rule <SG5>, Carrying an Opposing Alliance Crate

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC5356 View Post
    What happens if an opponent robot contacts one of our alliance crates on two sides, or holds it off the mat, continuously, for the whole match? Is that just one 5 point penalty?
    The action is a single violation of rule <SG5> that incurs one 5-point penalty, provided that no other rule is violated.

  4. #34
    FTC BLOCK PARTY! Game Expert GDC Building Block's Avatar
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    Stacking an Opposing Alliance crate on their own Alliance's Crate

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC5356 View Post
    What happens if an opponent places one of our crates on top of a stack of their crates? (With or without a ball in our crate.) Is that only a 5 point penalty (assuming they only had to touch our crate illegally one time in order to stack it)?
    The action described is a single violation of rule <SG5> that incurs one, 5-point penalty.

  5. #35
    FTC BLOCK PARTY! Game Expert GDC Building Block's Avatar
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    De-scoring Balls Contained in Crates

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC5356 View Post
    Suppose our robot is carrying one of our alliance crates with a ball inside, with the crate in the air above our protected area or above our home zone, and suppose an opposing alliance robot contacts our robot or our carried crate (which is already a minus-40 point violation of <SG7>).

    Q1: If the contact directly causes our carried crate to fall, and the fall of the crate causes the ball to bounce out, is this action considered a violation of the prohibition in <SG2> of deliberately de-scoring balls from crates in the protected area (which is minus-40 and a disqualification), instead of (or in addition to) <SG7>, or is only <SG7> violated?

    Q2: If the contact does not cause our carried crate to fall, but directly causes the ball to bounce or roll out of our carried crate, is this action considered a violation of the prohibition in <SG2> of deliberately de-scoring balls from crates in the protected area (which is minus-40 and a disqualification) instead of (or in addition to) <SG7>, or is only <SG7> violated?
    A1: The action describes is a violation of both <SG2> and <SG7>.
    A2: The action describes is a violation of both <SG2> and <SG7>.

  6. #36
    FTC BLOCK PARTY! Game Expert GDC Building Block's Avatar
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    Rule <SG9>

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC3483 View Post
    Does the rule apply to Autonomous as well as Driver Controlled?

    <SG9> Pushing an opposing Alliance's Ball Crate and/or Bowling Ball onto your Home Zone and/or Protected
    Area is not allowed at any time and will result in a Major Penalty (40 points).***

    Thanks.
    Yes, "at any time" includes both Autonomous and Driver Controlled portions of the match.

  7. #37
    Game Design Committee Member GDC Ripple Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTC4494 View Post
    Will we be penalized if our robot continues to move with no power applied to the motors after Teleop ends? If not, will the round be scored based on our status at the end of Teleop or that when the robot stops moving?


    A: Motion/activity started prior to the end of the match or caused by a simple, random relaxation of the robot will not be penalized. Purposeful motion triggered after the end of the match is a safety violation and may result in disqualification of the robot (<S1>).

  8. #38
    FTC BLOCK PARTY! Game Expert GDC Building Block's Avatar
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    Safety of a Scissor Lift

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC4102 View Post
    Our robot has a scissor lift that shoots up very fast when it is released. Because of the way it is designed, it has to do this in order to work properly. When it shoots up it goes up straight, so it would not go outside of the playing field unless the robot itself was on an angle. We will be placing warnings on the robot about this, protective padding on the top of the lift, and also warning refs during a match when we are about to release the lift. There are no rules against a fast moving lift since it won't damage any field elements and it won't endanger spectators or drivers since it doesn't go outside the playing field. However, refs at our latest scrimmage were still concerned about safety with the lift. Even if it doesn't hurt someone, is there any reason we could be disqualified from a match or a tournament simply because of a fast moving lift? (assuming it doesn't hit anybody)
    The Game Design Committee is not able to rule on the safety of the described scenario. Fast robot motion in itself doesn't automatically violate a rule. On-site Referees are best suited to observe robot behavior and determine if rules are violated. Depending on the situation, safety rules <S1> and <S2>, and rule <G8> could come into play.

  9. #39
    Game Design Committee Member GDC Ripple Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTC3785 View Post
    Given the potential for some very high scores by a high lifting robot- it seems that one's robot might be tempted to knock a crate/ball out of a high scoring robot- as a a defenseive move-especially if the robot is not in a "safe" zone. The potential penality could be 80 points if both <SG2> and <SG7> are invoked but if the high lifting robot could score 2-300 points then taking a -80 point hit might be a viable strategy?

    a) In one scenario- the high lifting robot is carrying a crate with or with out a ball and is challenged by the opposing alliance- thsi robot eventually knocks the ball out or knocks the crate out of or off the robot. Is this just a -40 point penality, -80 or a potential disqualification?

    b) Second scenario- the high lifting robot is in the safe zone but the opposing alliances robot attempts to knock the crate off or out of the high lifting robot- what is the call? Is this just a -40 point penality or a potential disqualification?

    thanks


    A: Both of these scenarios would fall under the rulings associated with <G16>. They both fall into the general description of repeated and/or flagrant violation of game rules.

  10. #40
    Game Design Committee Member GDC Ripple Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTC3785 View Post
    In a follow up to #39. If the robot is carrying a crate in the open field- no ball inside- and is not actively stacking but carrying a crate-looking to add a ball to the crate. What if the opposing alliance team repeated knocks into the arm holding the empty crate. After 3 or 4 knocks, the crate is dislodged from the robots grips and falls. Is this fair play? or does <g16> come into play. With the possibility of very high lifts- dislodging a empty crate can be a useful strategy to stop a major point score. Thanks


    A: In general, there is no penalty associated with making contact with a crate carried by an opposing alliance robot outside of the protected areas. However, the referees on the field will have to assess whether the specific sequence of contacts and/or their results violates any of the other rules, including any possible violation of <G16>.

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