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Thread: Game Rules and Game Play - Answer Thread

  1. #221
    Game Design Committee Member Wil Wheaton's Avatar
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    Moving Opposing Alliance Rolling Goal out from Under Own Center Goal

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC6299 View Post
    Can you clarify the reasoning between Q&A # 102 & #111 A1)? Is it the intent to allow access (via the use of GS13's " inadvertent an inconsequential" clause) to the Ramp, but not the Center Goal at End Game?

    #102
    Ramp blocking

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC6191 View Post
    If the rolling goals of the other team ends up in front of our ramp, whether it was intentional or not, and endgame starts, does this count as forcing a penalty as our team would have to get a 50 point penalty for moving the other team's rolling goal out of the way to access the ramp?

    A: The intent of the GDC is to allow access to the ramp. Slight movement of the opponent’s rolling goal is deemed to be inconsequential and inadvertent. If a team intentionally blocks the ramp or descores balls, the appropriate penalty will apply.


    #111
    Opposing rolling goal-Center target-defense

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC3785 View Post
    If a team encounters the opposing rolling goal underneath the high center target-"the 30 cm tube on center structure (near station 1)"- Can the opposing team move the opposing rolling goal out of the way without a penalty? 2. Can one park a robot directly underneath/in front of the same high tube (near station 1)-Which has the net effect of reducing access to this goal?

    A1: Yes, you may push it out of the way <GS10> up to, but not including the End Game <GS13>. You may not grab or grasp it in order to move it <GS9>. When pushing it out of the way, pay attention to Rule <GS12>
    A2: No, per Rule <GS18>


    A: Teams that move an opposing alliance rolling goal out from under their center goal will not be in violation of <GS13> as long as, in the referee's opnion, the contact is no more than is needed to clear the center goal and does not violation any other rules (grasping, etc.)
    Last edited by Wil Wheaton; 03-09-2015 at 10:29 PM.

  2. #222
    Game Design Committee Member Wil Wheaton's Avatar
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    Rolling Goal Tipped During Autonomous

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC0365 View Post
    I have 3 questions about a particular scenario that recently occurred.

    Scenario was that Blue team scored ball in Blue tube during autonomous and then tipped over blue tall tube and ball rolled out of the tube.
    The call on the field was 50 point penalty <GS14>. Tthere was no de-scoring penalty <GS5>. I think that this was call since ball is not scored until end of autonomous.
    The tube was reset between autonomous and Teleop. That is consistent with the way referee said it would be handled in driver meeting, but I can not find any rule in the manual that documents resetting field elements. In a previous tournament, our team had knocked off the center goal in autonomous and center doals was not reset.
    I can not find any mention of these scenarios in the game manual or forums about resetting field elements. The closest I find is
    <G15> I am posting this note to document and ensure it is consistent in future tournaments. I tend to think that referee got the calls correct in the scenario above, but in the end, it is not my call

    The 3 questions are:
    1. Should Blue Alliance be assessed a de-scoring penalty <GS5> once Blue goal is tipped over in autonomous in addition to the assess <GS14>?
    2. Should blue rolling goal be reset after tipping over in autonomous?
    3. If answer to prior question is yes, Is the reset rule, over the same for center goal that are dislodged as rolling goals that are tipped over? In other words, should center goal be reset if knocked off field center?

    Many thanks


    A1: <GS5> only applies to de-scoring from the opposing alliance rolling goal. The penalty for tipping your own rolling goal (and descoring balls) would be a single major penalty (<GS14>)

    A2: Yes, all goals are "righted" at the end of the autonomous period.

    A3: Yes, the center goal should be re-hung if it is knocked off during the autonomous period.

  3. #223
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Blocking Access to Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC4290 View Post
    Even if our robot is not controlling more than 5 balls (no penalty via GS1), would a penalty be assessed for blocking access to more than 5, e.g., by blocking access to a corner of the field which is full of balls? Thank you.

    A: There is not a penalty for blocking access to balls.
    Last edited by Raj; 03-16-2015 at 06:52 PM.

  4. #224
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Kickstand grasp/grapple

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC5110 View Post
    As per <G8> it's clear we may not grasp or grapple the Kickstand. On 09-17-2014 you state "Kickstands can be pushed but per Rule <G8> they may not be grasped or grabbed." indicating pushing is fine.

    Our intake roller can influence the position of the Kickstand, effectively pushing or pulling it around through intermittent contact with rotating paddles. The Kickstand stays on the foam tiles at all times.

    Q: Does this pushing and pulling via intermittent contact constitute grasping or grappling?

    A: This type of manipulation of the Kickstand does not appear to be grasping or grappling.

  5. #225
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Ramming rolling goals in the autonomous period

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC3631 View Post
    In our latest competition, we encountered a new autonomous strategy. Teams in their autonomous program from the floor position would drive directly to the left into the opposing alliance's rolling goals before the robot on the ramp could drive down to them. For the sake of clarity, if the team on the floor was red, they would ram the blue teams' rolling goals into the wall and out of position. This made it so the blue team had no chance to use their rolling goals in their autonomous. But, the red robot could easily ram the rolling goals, then back away and go score in the center goal or knock the kickstand with plenty of time. Also, we saw this strategy push the rolling goal bases on top of each other, which messed up the entire match for the blue team. If this strategy is allowable, it will mean from what we have witnessed that the robot on the ramp will never reach its rolling goals in time to score balls in them or pull the rolling goals back to the parking zone, making these autonomous options unusable.

    Our questions are:
    1) Could this strategy potentially hurt the rolling goals?
    2) Is this considered blocking (rule <GS17>) since in autonomous it is very hard or impossible for teams to recalculate their program to find the repositioned tubes?
    3) Is this strategy in line with gracious professionalism, which FTC diligently fosters

    Thank you,
    Team 3631

    A: All the answers are up to the referees to decide on whether a penalty occurs or not.

  6. #226
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Moving Tubes through opponents parking zone during autonomous

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC6981 View Post
    Lets say that at the beginning of autonomous mode, our robot is programmed to leave our ramp, go straight across to our 30/60/90 tubes, and drop a ball in one tube, then a ball in another tube, and then bring one tube back to our parking zone. However, the other alliance has a robot that starts autonomous mode by moving towards our tubes, and scatters them. So, when our robot executes its autonomous mode, and makes its turn to head to base after missing both tubes, our robot then moves one of the scattered tubes across the plane of the tape for the other alliance parking zone. Would this be a major penalty under GS12, or, would rule G11 apply here since the tube would not have been pushed through the home zone had the opposing alliance not have moved them in the first place?

    We would see this as purely incidental contact and not a penalty at all since under a normal autonomous period, we would never move a tube through the opposing alliance parking zone.

    A: It depends on what the referees see at the time of the possible infraction whether a penalty will be called or not.

  7. #227
    Game Design Committee Member Wil Wheaton's Avatar
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    GS1 and GS11

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC7785 View Post
    <GS1> seems to be interpreted differently in different places. Posts #80 and #162 indicate that if a robot is ever in control of more than 5 balls, it is the robot's fault, regardless of the situation. Post #123 also indicates this, giving the exception that if the opposing alliance intentionally places more than 5 balls in the robot, <G11> will be applied. However, the Referee Manual specifically states in <GS1> that "Balls trapped within a Robot that became trapped due to actions of the Robot's own Alliance count against the 5 Ball limit. Balls trapped due to actions of the opposing Alliance will not count." We know that the forum takes precedence over the manuals, but we were wondering if <GS1>, as stated in the Ref Manual, is still valid in ANY situation.


    A: The posts and manuals referenced above are all consistent with each other. Robots are responsible for trapped balls in excess of 5 per <GS1>, unless they were trapped within the robot intentionally by an Opposing Alliance robot (<GS11> protections)

  8. #228
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Coaches Not Being Allowed To Place the Robot On Field For Matches

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC4625 View Post
    A question just came up on the FTC Championship Facebook group that we would like to see clarified. In the Championship essential information guide under the section on Badges it says 1) Coach (This badge has a dot on it. The Coach cannot touch or drive the robot or handle the robot controls on the competition field.) Some teams are interpreting this to mean that the Coach cannot be the one who places the robot on the field, and that in some lower-level competitions that has been the rule interpretation. Rule (G5) covers the Coach not being allowed to touch the controllers during a match, but I cannot find anything in the rules that would prevent the Coach from being the one who carries the robot to the field and puts it in position. Can you clarify?


    A: The Coach will not be allowed to touch the robot or controls during the match per <G5>. In order to expedite field reset, having the Coach set the robot on the field or picking it up after the match is over is not illegal and would not be penalized.
    Last edited by Raj; 04-14-2015 at 10:07 AM.

  9. #229
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Incidentally entered ball into fallen Center goal during Autonomous

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC5939 View Post
    According to <GS6> During the Autonomous Period, Robots can only Score pre-loaded Balls. If any Balls other than the four Autonomous Balls are Scored by an Alliance during the Autonomous Period, their Autonomous Period Ball Score is zero. They can, however, still get a Ramp/Platform or Kickstand Bonus.

    However, wanted to confirm scoring decision in following scenario:
    During Autonomous period, let's say, in a defensive blocking strategy, Blue Alliance Robot blocks Red Alliance Robot. In the process Red alliance robot wears off and knocks down the Blue Alliance Center goal (CG) to the floor. After few seconds in the autonomous session, another Red Alliance robot kicks their kickstand and balls cascade down. In the process one of balls enters into Blue Alliance CG on the floor. Is this considered as Autonomous CG Scoring (60 pts) to Blue Alliance?

    A: No, this would be a violation of <GS15>, scoring a ball into a goal that is tipped over. Even though <GS15> specifically mentions Rolling Goal, we are expanding the rule based on the scenario described.
    Last edited by Raj; 04-14-2015 at 10:09 AM.

  10. #230
    Game Design Committee Member Wil Wheaton's Avatar
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    Autonomous Rolling Goal Pushing Risks

    Quote Originally Posted by FTC6389 View Post
    Hello GDC,

    Can you please provide more of a response to this question? Our interpretation of the rules does not lead us to believe that this would be a referee call, but rather a definitive ruling given in the game manual. Rules we feel specifically allow for the defensive pushing of rolling goals during autonomous period:

    <G9> "defensive Game play should be expected"
    <GS10> Robots may push any Rolling Goals (belonging to their Alliance or the opposing Alliance) as long as no other rules are violated.

    There is no other ruling that specifically disallows pushing the opponents rolling goals during autonomous period, so how could it possibly be "up to the referee". What would the possible penalty be? There is no blocking access, no tipping over, no grasping or grappling, just pushing.

    - FTC Team #6389


    A: The response as given is accurate. There no inherent rule violation in merely pushing the rolling goals during the autonomous period. The referees will observe the sequence of events and the results of the pushing and make a determination based on what they see (i.e. the side-effects of the pushing). There are several rules that could be violated, including:

    • <G9> strategies aimed at tipping/entanglement
    • <GS9> grasp opposing alliance rolling goal
    • <GS14> tipping (possibly <GS5> descoring too),
    • <GS17> blocking access to rolling goals


    all depending on the outcomes of the pushing.

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