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Thread: Penalties

  1. #11
    Game Design Committee Member Wil Wheaton's Avatar
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    Wedging Rolling Goals Under Bridges

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC0247 View Post
    Hello,

    In post #8 of this thread, your reply was that the rolling goal does not fit under the bridge without lifting it. However, at a scrimmage this past weekend a team was able to wedge just the wooden platen part of the rolling goal under an opponent's own bridge without lifting the bridge off the balance beam (therefore: no field damage) just a few seconds before end-game began. Their opponent was able to dislodge the rolling goal and successfully balance with only seconds remaining, but this made balancing far more difficult and the hapless opponent nearly tipped their robot over in the dislodge attempt.

    There was a discussion among the referees as to whether this was a legal strategy, but since the opponent did successfully balance in the end it was a moot point and they did not assess a penalty.

    As noted in post #8, there does not appear to be any penalty for setting up a situation that makes balancing harder for an opponent as long as that setup occurs before endgame begins. While your reply to post #8 was correct insofar as it is impossible to wedge the entire rolling goal including PVC cylindars without lifting the bridge, it is quite easy to wedge the wooden base and wheels under the lip of the bridge, forcing the opponent to waste precious seconds in endgame clearing the goal before they can balance.

    Is this intended to be a legal and penalty-free strategy?
    No.

    Intentional wedging of Rolling Goals under the end of a Bridge should be considered intentional entanglement of scoring areas and under Rule <G8> may result in disqualification for the offending team.

  2. #12
    Game Design Committee Member Sheldon's Avatar
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    Goal Tipping

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC1000 View Post
    If I accidentally push a rolling goal over the cliff, is there a penalty?


    If you push an opposing alliance's goal over the Cliff and it ends up in a tipped position (i.e. partially on the Cliff and partially on the corrugated panel) then Rule G8 will apply and the offending robot will be disqualified. If a robot pushes it's own goal over the Cliff and it ends up tipped then no penalty will be awarded.

  3. #13
    Game Design Committee Member Sheldon's Avatar
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    Baton Possesion

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC1000 View Post
    If a baton falls out of the dispenser and lands in my robot, is it considered possession?


    Yes, even if the robot cannot score the baton (i.e. trapped inside the robot) it is still subject to the 5 baton limit.

  4. #14
    Game Design Committee Member Sheldon's Avatar
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    Low Goal Entanglement

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC0247 View Post
    Hello,

    In post #11 you clarified that purposely wedging a rolling goal under a bridge would be considered "field entaglement" and subject a team to possible disqualification.

    A similar strategy that we observed at a tournament was to push the opponent's rolling goal onto the corrugated plastic low goal, making it very hard to access. In fact, because teams cannot "grab" the goal until end game, it is very challenging to drag it out from the low goal until end game begins without violating the goal possession rule, unless one constructs an effector just for this purpose. This makes it extremely difficult to get that goal out and balance with it within the 30 second end game period.

    Would this strategy by the same logic therefore be considered entanglement of field elements, subjecting the violator to possible disqualification?


    Pushing an opposing alliance's Rolling Goal into the Stationary Goal is a legal strategy and will not result in a DQ providing no other rules are violated.

  5. #15
    Game Design Committee Member Professor Proton's Avatar
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    Removing Batons from an Opposing Alliance's Dispenser

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC0505 View Post
    During the autonomous period if our robot knocks the opponents batons out of their dispenser and out of the playing field. Are we penalized after the autonomous period is over?
    An alliance is penalized 5-points per Baton, anytime (Autonomous and Driver Controlled periods) they remove Batons from an opposing alliance's dispenser per rule <SG3>.

  6. #16
    Game Design Committee Member Sheldon's Avatar
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    Temporary Baton Possesion

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC3785 View Post
    In a Qualifying tournament, (from you tube video coverage) it looked like it was common for a robot to unload a series of batons, and some of the batons were on top of the robot but later "bounced off/rolled off or fell off " when the robot moved. Is the 5 baton rule invoked if >5 batons hit the robot -even if they quickly roll off? Along these lines, if the batons are rolling through the robot- maybe on a conveyer belt or just a plastic chute. Can more than 5 batons roll through (i.e. they are not staying on the robot/ not held by the robot) and they might "touch" a robot/pass through the robot but this possesion is less than "5 seconds"


    Batons that strike the robot and fall off immediately are not considered possessed. If a robot accidently acquires more than 5 batons their immediate actions must be to remove the excess batons. If they continue to play the game the team will be penalized for the excess batons.
    Batons that pass through a robot via a device that controls the baton position, like a chute, conveyor or ramp, are considered possessed and are restricted to the 5 baton limit.

  7. #17
    Game Design Committee Member Professor Proton's Avatar
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    Tipping A Rolling Goal

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC4081 View Post
    If you knock over an opponent's rolling goal (before it has any batons in it) will you get a penalty?
    Yes, rule <SG9> clearly states that "intentional tipping over of the opposing Alliance’s Rolling Goal (either empty or full) will result in a team disqualification."

  8. #18
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Outside

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC4081 View Post
    Can a robot intentionally go partially outside the playing field? Like have an arm that spins over the boundary wall or something like that?

    A: Unintentional movement outside of the field is allowed as long as Safety Rule <S2> is not violated:
    <S2> If a robot goes completely out-of-bounds (outside the 12’x12’ portion of the playing field), it will be disabled for the remainder of the match. Note: The intent is NOT to penalize robots for having mechanisms that inadvertently cross the 12’x12’ border walls during normal game play.
    As posted in another section of this forum, robots may not INTENTIONALLY cross the border walls during game play for the safety of volunteers and Teams standing near the playing field. The action/robot design described in the post is not allowed. Don't have a game strategy where the robot extends beyond the field walls. This is a safety concern for all field personnel as well as teams.
    Last edited by Raj; 11-30-2010 at 12:49 AM. Reason: clarified to be consistent with previous ruling in another section

  9. #19
    Game Design Committee Member Professor Proton's Avatar
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    Robots attaching to the playing field wall

    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC4081 View Post
    Can our robot clamp onto the wall? You have already said that our robot can partially exit the playing field, and there are no rules against this but I wanted to double check.
    The statement that a "robot can partially exit the playing field" is NOT correct if the action is intentional. Robots may NOT intentionally cross the outside plane of the playing field wall. If the robot crosses the outside plane of the playing field wall while attaching to the wall, it is a violation of the rules. Also keep in mind that rule <S1> is violated if the playing field wall is damaged when the robot attaches to the wall.

  10. #20
    Game Design Committee Member Raj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2010FTC1369 View Post
    At a qualifying tournament this weekend, several teams were awarded a 5 point penalty when the technique they used to score the batons in the 4 inch PVC caused the rolling goal to move. Specifically, these robots had control of 5 batons in a robot component that was only designed to gather and score the batons in the 4 inch PVC on the Rolling Goal. These components would go into the 4 inch PVC and then release the batons into the goal. Sometime, the scoring component would not be raised high enough or quick enough to cause the robots goal scoring component to hit the PVC pipe when being extracted. The extraction of the robot's baton scoring component would sometimes cause the Rolling Goal to move slightly. A 5 point Rolling Goal position penalty was awarded. The robots baton scoring component is never used to control the Rolling Goal. If any robot component is placed into the 4 inch PVC to help it score batons, is that a valid definition of possessing a rolling goal? Thank You.

    A: Please refer to the Game Definitions section and Questions #16 and #29. A component of a robot that protrudes into one of the 4-inch or 2-inch pipes of the rolling goal could be considered to make the rolling goal in possession and a penalty may be assessed except when in the act of scoring.
    Last edited by Raj; 01-11-2011 at 06:38 PM.

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